“ The goal is to find magic which is not psychotic, to find a form of magic which isn’t simply the denial of reality. The nonpsychotic form of magic is play. The analyst and the patient have to learn to be able to play together in that transitional realm. ”
Joel Whitebook, PhD
New York
Episode Description:
Dr. Harvey Schwartz welcomes Dr. Joel Whitebook. Dr. Whitebook is a philosopher and a psychoanalyst and is on the faculty of the Columbia Center for Psychoanalytic Training and Research where he was the Director of the University’s Psychoanalytic Studies Program. Dr. Whitebook’s research centers on the attempt to integrate psychoanalysis and critical theory in the tradition of the Frankfurt School. Dr. Whitebook is widely published but is mostly known for his masterwork, Freud: An Intellectual Biography. In this work he brings together his philosophical and psychoanalytic ear and insightfulness to provide an overview and a deep understanding of Freud’s development.
In today’s conversation, Drs. Whitebook and Schwartz speak about magic in the history of psychoanalysis, and as it relates to religion, transference, play, and the healing process in general. Enjoy this simply fascinating talk.
Key Takeaways:
[9:44] Dr. Whitebook talks about what he learned about magic.
[10:28] Enlightenment, magic, and disenchantment.
[14:05] Dr. Whitebook talks about the often denied origins of psychoanalysis.
[15:48] Dr. Whitebook explains the way in which psychoanalysis emerged out of hypnosis.
[17:03] Hypnosis is an example of transference.
[18:15] Psychoanalysis was born because of the way it repudiated suggestion.
[19:55] Drs. Whitebook and Schwartz explore the concept of analytic magic/transference/love.
[21:50] Transference and countertransference as vehicles for insight.
[23:05] Enactment as a way of producing the material that then can be analyzed to achieve insight.
[25:01] Dr. Winnicott’s criticism of Freud’s notion of illusion.
[28:09] The two principles of mental functioning.
[29:48] Embracing external reality while respecting the forces of enchantment.
[33:16] The desecularization of the world.
[34:10] Dr. Whitebook talks about how magic is and has been immersed in his work.
[36:20] Dr. Whitebook shares how he tried to untangle Freud’s objections to religions.
[38:25] Freedom of speech occupies a central role in psychoanalysis.
[39:43] Freud, Judaism, and psychoanalysis.
Mentioned in This Episode
IPA Off the Couch – www.ipaoffthecouch.org
Learn more about Dr. Joel Whitebook
Recommended Readings
Perversion and Utopia: Studies in Psychoanalysis and Critical Thinking, (Studies in Contemporary German Social Thought), Joel Whitebook
Freud: An Intellectual Biography, , Chapters, 8, 9, 11 & 13. Joel Whitebook
Slow Magic: Psychoanalysis and the Disenchantment of the World. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association 50, no. 4 (2002): 1197-1217. Joel Whitebook
Jacob’s Ambivalent Legacy. .American Imago (2010): 139-155. Joel Whitebook
Freud on Religion, (Acumen, 2104), Chapt, 4. Marsha Alleen Hewitt
Psychoanalysis and Magic: Then and now. American Imago (2009): 471-489. Mikita Brottman
Evening in the Palace of Reason: Bach Meets Federick the Great in the Age of Enlightenment, (Harper: 2016). James Gaines (This is a marvelous book that explores the fate of Bach’s enchanted world of music when it encountered the Enlightenment.)
Dear Tom,
Thank you for your question and I agree that it is one of the most important ones confronting us. While I can’t give you an extended response, to things occur to me.
First, is the cult of celebrity. I would say that not only is the cult of celebrity — with its wealth, glitter, adulation, etc.– a manifestation of grandiosity, but that it is also the contemporary representation of the Golden Calf. It permeates our culture. We can obviously observe its destructive effects in recent presidential politics. But we can also see it in the academy, where celebrity professors (like celebrity psychoanalysts) jet around the globe.
Second, today idolatry can be observed in the increasing dominance of imagist thinking over linguistic thinking. Remember, the prohibition of idolatry, literally meant a prohibition on imagistic representation — what the Germans cll the Bilderverbot. We know that Freud valorized lingusiticall-mediated thought over imagistically-mediated thought because he believed it created greater articulation and clarity, which are necessary conditions for critical thinking. Today, a significant portion of the population has its noses buried in one screen or another watching YouTube. Indeed, even mainstream publications feel compelled to present video clips in their online editions. And again, to the extent the literacy and a reading public decline, I would argue that an autonomous and critical citizenry decline as well.
Dear Tom,
Thank you for your question and I agree that this is one of the most profound questions facing us in the contemporary world. While I can’t give you an extended answer, two things occur to me.
The first is the cult of celebrity. Celebrity — which is surrounded by wealth, glitter, adulation, and so on — is not only an expression of
grandiosity, but I would also say that it is a contemporary representation of the golden calf. And it permeates our culture: as recent experience demonstrates, electoral politics, but also in the academy, where celebrity professors (and psychoanalysts) jet around the globe. It is dangerous because, to the extent that we are mesmerized b.y celebrity, we are deprived of our ability to think critically and there of our ability to be autonomous citizens.
The second is the ubiquity of imagistic thinking. In the Bible, the prohibition of idolatry was literally a prohibitions on imagistic representation, what the Germans called the Bilderverbot. And we know that Freud placed a premium on linguistically-mediated thinking, as opposed to imagistically-mediated thinking, because of its superior capacity for clarity and articulation. Today, the vast majority of the population have their noses buried in one type of screen or another. Even mainstream media feels compelled to include videos in their online publications. And again, I am afraid that this decline in literacy leads to a decline in critical thinking and therefore in an informed and autonomous citizenry.
I’m an architect with a B.A. in philosophy and an M.Div. – no formal training in psycho-analysis.
Great show. Very pleased to be introduced to Whitebook.
What counts for idolatry in the contemporary world?
I’m not sure there is a more profound question.
I feel very enriched hearing this and other podcasts, a very important work done by IPA and Dr Schwartz by sharing worldwide such important talks and psychoanalytical talks!
How can I hear all past podcasts?
Dear Elsa,
I’m pleased that your are finding these conversations to be worthwhile.
They all can be found either at this website IPAOfftheCouch.org or on any of the usual podcast platforms, ie iTunes, Spotify, Sticher etc under the title Psychoanalysis On and Off the Couch.