“The skin disorder got worse every spring time coinciding with the time of the death of his father.”
Jorge Ulnik MD, PhD
Buenos Aires
Episode Description:
Harvey Schwartz welcomes Dr. Jorge Ulnik, who is a Training and Supervising Analyst at the Argentine Psychoanalytic Association. Dr. Ulnik has devoted his professional career to the mind-body interface especially as it expresses itself in psychosomatic conditions and even more focused in the world of dermatology. He writes about the psychoanalytic approach to dermatology for medical journals and has lectured around the world on this subject. He has published 22 papers in Spanish in addition to 7 book chapters in 2 books and his latest book in English, called Skin in Psychoanalysis
In this episode Dr. Ulnik talks about his extensive clinical experience in this area, his work with individual patients and the conceptual thought that backs up this clinical approach.
Key Takeaways:
[3:05] The contributions of psychoanalysis to dermatology.
[4:49] Parallelism between the functions of the skin and the ego.
[5:10] Joint consultation.
[7:11] Integration challenges.
[8:28] Treating psychosomatic skin disorders.
[10:22] A case where integration was successful.
[13:56] The emotional background of Dr. Ulnik’s patients.
[14:15] Lack of touch.
[14:45] The gaze: being seen through a skin disorder.
[17:05] Being seen and being known.
[18:40] Formal representations. The Skin Ego by Didier Anzieu
[20:31] Access to affect in psychosomatic patients.
[21:20] Action vs. words.
[22:30] Intense suffering as a result of feeling certain emotions.
[24:20] The skin as a mirror to project emotional pain.
[25:06] Skin patients need to be touched.
[27:40] Analyst takes on the sense of darkness.
[30:25] Threat of being cured from a skin disease and instead becoming disorganized or going crazy.
[31:37] Interchangeability of somatic symptoms.
[33:17] Localization of lesions in the body.
[34:58] Finding order when the nonsense is commanding the situation.
[35:40] Humor and metaphor as splendid tools to work with in psychoanalysis.
Recommended Readings
Connor, Steven. The Book of Skin. Reaktion books, London, 2004.
Lemma A. Under the Skin. A Psychoanalytic Study of Body Modification. London: Routledge; 2010.
Schur M. Comments on the metapsychology of somatization. Psychoanalytic Study of the Child 10: 63-68.1955.
Ulnik, J. Skin in Psychoanalysis. Routledge, London 2007
Dear María,
I am glad that you liked the interview. Regarding the subject you are asking about, I have not read any article about it so far
thanks for your comment,
Jorge Ulnik
I really liked this interview. I would be curious if there are articles that treat the relationship between pregnancy and dermatological symptoms (caused or not by other somatic disorders, such as pruritus caused by cholestasis of pregnancy). Thank you!
Dear María,
I am glad that you liked the interview. Regarding the subject you are asking about, I have not read any article about it so far.
Thanks for your comment,
Jorge
Thoroughly enjoyed listening to this. I continue to be amazed on the vastness of the psyche.
Martha (candidate from the Colombian Psychoanalytical Society)
Dear Ivette, I also learned a lot from Esther Bick’s work.
If you like the topic, I recommend you the Didier Anzieu’s book the Skin Ego and my book Skin in psychoanalys
Kindest regards
jorge ulnik
Dr Jorge Ulnik
Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Kindest Regards
Gabriela (Portugal)
Thank you
As a child Psychotherapist I have been very interested about this link between the psyche and skin. I very much enjoy the writings of Psychoanalyst Esther Bick on this topic.
Warm Regards
Yvette (Australia)
Dear Gabriela, thank you for your kind comment. Kindest regards
Jorge ulnik
Very insightful talk!
Dear Ananya,
Thank you very much for your comment!
Kindest regards,
Dr Jorge Ulnik
I thoroughly enjoyed this podcast and Dr. Ulnik’s experiences and explanation of psychosomatic phenomena. There is so much more to talk about and learn! I would bet his book on skin and psychoanalysis is interesting. I look forward to listening to much more of your podcast!
Thank you and best wishes,
Dr. K.W. Seidl
Dear Karolyn,
Thank you for your words. I am glad you enjoyed the podcast. You can count on me for future inquires.
Kindest regards,
Dr Jorge Ulnik
Wonderful! Much appreciated, Dr. Ulnik.
Best wishes,
Dr. Seidl